fpsclasico masters summer 21 cup

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Re: fpsclasico masters summer 21 cup

Post by fernandinho1337 »

out of curiosity can u explain the stats? what do the numbers per weapon mean? cant really make sense out of it ^^
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Re: fpsclasico masters summer 21 cup

Post by adminless »

and btw about the tie-breaker selection also add that yes, true, unfortunately I tried my best but this time it did not work so good. as for the reasoning behind it is simple, on the previous game it was really the deciding moment of the fight and it was actually quite balanced (yes miro won it ultimately but after a tremendous come back, it was really balanced, proof of that is that he dropped it now). the alternative scenario I had considered/expected was miro picking pro-q3dm6 instead of ztn3tourney1 and then me doing ztn3tourney1 as tie-breaker for a hub3tourney1, pukka3tourney2, hektik_b3, pro-q3dm6, ztn3tourney1 fight which I would have preferred instead of hub3aeroq3 since hub3aeroq3 as pointed by miro himself is kind of a uncontrollable loot map. hopefully it did not happen as ztn3tourney1 proved to be totally one sided. of the rest I did not even consider them as most of them are not even competitive at this level of skill and/or simply not so much played (I didn't feel like coming up with some "random" map) and/or perceived as one sided (ex. pro-q3dm6 would perceivably greatly favor miro while bloodcovenant fau). however in light of that probably I can announce now that the next (if it's that there's some next) time I'll do consider something different for a tie-breaker like phantq3dm1_rev, storm3tourney1, qxtourney1 or q3shw19 for example. anyways, whatever the case is I repeat I analyzed and overall the fight was clear enough as to be called for miro. even if we were to discard the tie-breaker the numbers tell that miro won 42:13 his games (i.e. he scored at a performance of 3.23:1) while fau delivered a 50:25 on his home maps for a score performance of exactly 2:1 against the superior 3.23:1 score performance dominance of miro on his home maps. on the total score there was a virtual tie with a score of 67:63 (1.06 of score performance) in favor of miro showing off how close this really was.

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Re: fpsclasico masters summer 21 cup

Post by adminless »

@miro sure I'll parse your first ones:
  • game time: 1041.0 seconds since the map loaded which includes the warmup round
  • Weapon_Stats:
    • client slot: 1
    • MachineGun:
      • shots: 23
      • hits: 6 (acc 26.09%)
      • picked: 0
      • dropped: 0
    • Shotgun:
      • shots: 0
      • hits: 0 (acc undefined)
      • picked: 5
      • dropped: 0
    • G.Launcher:
      • shots: 22
      • hits: 1 (acc 4.55%)
      • picked: 9
      • dropped: 0
    • R.Launcher:
      • shots: 111
      • hist: 60 (acc 54.05%)
      • picked: 23
      • dropped: 7
    • LightningGun:
      • shots: 535
      • hits: 124 (acc 23.18%)
      • picked: 7
      • dropped: 1
    • Railgun:
      • shots: 21
      • hits: 11 (acc 52.38%)
      • picked: 19
      • dropped: 1
  • damage
    • Given: 5362
    • Recvd: 3540
  • Armor: 2115 (picked)
  • Health: 885 (picked)

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Re: fpsclasico masters summer 21 cup

Post by fernandinho1337 »

Thx! :)
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Re: fpsclasico masters summer 21 cup

Post by fernandinho1337 »

hi adminless

just as an idea in case another duel tournaments happens what about making up a map pool of maps that used to be played on a pro level (uneven number) and the competitors can vote out the maps they dislike most. you will be left with the maps both players both feel most uncomfortable with. i think that was done in quite a few q3/q4/ql tournaments and made things interesting. you would take away faus and my easy wins and would have 5 exciting maps instead of the game coming down to one single deciding map. because lets face it: if fau and i were to fight again we would pick the same maps and win those and play on one single map for the big win. it would make more sense to have up to 5 maps that nobody knows how they go ^^ maybe we can have that discussion in depth in half a year or so.

best regards,

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Re: fpsclasico masters summer 21 cup

Post by alyeti »

fernandinho1337 wrote:
Wed Jun 30, 2021 20:20
hi adminless

just as an idea in case another duel tournaments happens what about making up a map pool of maps that used to be played on a pro level (uneven number) and the competitors can vote out the maps they dislike most. you will be left with the maps both players both feel most uncomfortable with. i think that was done in quite a few q3/q4/ql tournaments and made things interesting. you would take away faus and my easy wins and would have 5 exciting maps instead of the game coming down to one single deciding map. because lets face it: if fau and i were to fight again we would pick the same maps and win those and play on one single map for the big win. it would make more sense to have up to 5 maps that nobody knows how they go ^^ maybe we can have that discussion in depth in half a year or so.

best regards,

toni


This makes good sense , otherwise some players cry like babies if they don't get get get lol

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Re: fpsclasico masters summer 21 cup

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@miro I know that's why I announced that next time (if it's that there's a next time) I'll make the tie-breaker something out of the usual like phantq3dm1_rev, storm3tourney1, qxtourney1 or q3shw19. for other than that I don't really like your suggestion, it seems over complicated and not very intuitive to me besides I think it favors you way more than it favors fau as there's probably more maps on the pool that favors you than they favor him. I mean I'd only project as faus maps on that pool pukka, hektik, phant, bloodcovenant and q3shw19 and even so I'm not entirely sure about that until it would have been played. the rest (i.e. 16 maps), again it would have been to be played to tell it for a fact but it seems more or less clear in your favor to me. if you want a challenge and/or something out of the ordinary if you happen to meet another time I think you could take that fight for example (phant, hektik, pukka, bloodcovenant, q3dhw19). that would be quite a challenge for you probably. anyways, yes I also been considering several other possibilities if another lineal champion fight spawns on the future but as you can see it's very hard to tell that's why probably my best shot so far is simply leave it at best of five as is and just make a unusual tie-breaker next time. anyways, as input on this this is what I have thought/considered so far, who knows may be something suits you both:
  • the first idea I had was just make this six games instead, each of you pick three, no tie-breaker, and is played b-a-a-b-b-a order (miro is player a and fau is player b as usual so far) and then either simply leave it a draw if nobodies win four, that would mean that you remain undisputed as you haven't been defeated, or break the draw (in case of a 3-3 scenario) by the combined score performance (score in favor divided by the opponents score) in the maps won which I believe it could also be a exciting format.
  • another possibility would be to make this at quakelive for example (I have one such server) which I project that it would probably even out things a lot though this has the massive downside that it would suck times ten for me to produce. alternatively a more realistic option for me than quakelive probably would be do this on cpm with a cpm map pool which I could probably deliver more comfortably.
  • a simple variation of what you have just suggested could be simply start removing maps you have won twice to be picked on new fights which essentially accomplishes the same thing you just described but in a more logic manner in my opinion.

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Re: fpsclasico masters summer 21 cup

Post by fernandinho1337 »

hi

some sort of alteration of the third option (removing home maps of both) could be interesting. i think there are some oldschool maps (q3t2) that fau and maybe dawidov or maybe others rising would also excel at a lot. i would just like to get a mix of more different maps and of course i have preferences towards the duel maps that were played in the 2000s. but probably those times are now really gone forever ^^

lets just see if this will be of interest to ppl when the time comes. i do not have the feeling many ppl care too much about the duel tournament. maybe the idea of having a 2on2 tournament or some other alteration of quake 3 will create some buzz and lastly make it competively ^^

best regards
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Re: fpsclasico masters summer 21 cup

Post by alyeti »

fernandinho1337 wrote:
Wed Jun 30, 2021 22:58
hi

some sort of alteration of the third option (removing home maps of both) could be interesting. i think there are some oldschool maps (q3t2) that fau and maybe dawidov or maybe others rising would also excel at a lot. i would just like to get a mix of more different maps and of course i have preferences towards the duel maps that were played in the 2000s. but probably those times are now really gone forever ^^

lets just see if this will be of interest to ppl when the time comes. i do not have the feeling many ppl care too much about the duel tournament. maybe the idea of having a 2on2 tournament or some other alteration of quake 3 will create some buzz and lastly make it competively ^^

best regards
2v2

Then has to be a good.player with a noob as team

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Re: fpsclasico masters summer 21 cup

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@miro hahaha d4widoV can be (that pro-q3tourney4 game was top, close to you btw) but fau is quite obvious that it's not in for the legacy 1999 non pro versions of t2, t4, dm13 and similar stuff. come on, let's be honest here, those maps (t2, t4, dm13) were only added to that server because you requested them year after year for years already nobody else. in fact, I believe that one of the problems with the tournaments here is precisely that, that this has been pretty much built exclusively for the most elitist of the elitist players (i.e. you, fau, d4widoV and may be a handful more) which means that it completely alienates even elitist players, let alone your average daily player. anyways, if you think about it the last point would mean no hubs (either hub3t1 or aero), no ztn and no pukka so you would have to do one legacy to take on fau and fau come up with something else beside hektik for this instance. yes, that could be interesting to be honest.

for the rest, well the UnFreeZe league was quite competitive also so we'll see if something comes out of the 2vs2 tournament but pretty much that only really spawned because people don't feel comfortable with this setup basically but anyways that's another story and as I said other times I won't drop the already classic fpsclasico tournaments in one way or another.

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Re: fpsclasico masters summer 21 cup

Post by fernandinho1337 »

The idea with removing those maps could be feasible. Also remove the very old maps for the tournament. Maybe fau got ideas on mixing up the map pool too. But yes lets just see if more than elitist players would participate at some point etc ^^

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Re: fpsclasico masters summer 21 cup

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nah they are ok at the end of the day if you pick one version you are not allowed to pick the other so it doesn't really change anything. if you were to beat someone on q3tourney4 you most likely would have beat him anyways on the pro newer version and although nobody (besides you) really request them there's a few still wiling to play them (like semi-orgi the other day for example). I don't really think that that's a huge deal, not everything has to be the pinnacle. cool, no hubs, no ztn and no pukka if it happens to be a third lineal challenge could definitely spice up things, I'm ok with that idea so we'll see.

for the rest, yes, I know, as I said I believe that it was a shame that we weren't even able to complete a mini cup (four people) with competitive opponents. we all know at least four guys (more beside you/fau/davi) that could have easily joined this but well that's how things go which is why I always thank everybody who showed and hold everybody that ever dared to participate on this on high esteem.

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Re: fpsclasico masters summer 21 cup

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ok following this report that finally in a effort to even out and balance a bit the map pool for the tournaments I also added today to the masters server (and consequently to the well known packages/mappacks) a new small cpm duels map tier (cpm1a [wicked], cpm3a [useandabuse], cpm15 [ffdm2] and cpm24 [phrantic]). I believe this should make things more interesting particularly in the eventual scenario of start removing 2:0 record maps as initially I wouldn't expect miro to own those too (and well if he does then I guess he will just be honoring his undisputed title). I personally hate them (I mean just a do a couple of test rounds on those make my head hurt) and my feelings are that probably they will just alienate this even more (the level of skill required for those maps is completely off the charts) but I also understand that they are great assets for over the top duels and it just happens that's exactly what we're talking about here so I added them. additionally this has the upside that hopefully it may attract some hardcore cpm players that may be around to join as well as serve as preamble in case another server/competition (like on quakelive or a alternative cpm server) spawns. as usual, give them a try and let me know how you see those and/or if anybody else have any other requests/suggestions for future editions.

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Re: fpsclasico masters summer 21 cup

Post by fau »

I've always been first to pick up new maps and add them to my repertoire. But nowadays I don't feel like there is a healthy duel community in neither q3 nor ql. Me playing here is just piggybacking on past experience. Trying to get some practice before tournament was a bit frustrating (I really believe that best practice is against players on similar level, and playing against much weaker/stronger opponents gets boring quickly) and I don't plan to continue playing duels maybe until there is another tournament because of it. Also I didn't play any q3/ql duels since the last one. I don't see myself learning maps I don't know, because I'm not an "active" dueler - the game(s) are not active enough for it. I'd be probably more happy about something like miro's proposition, there is a lot of maps to play already compared to an average q3 dueler who knows only ztn/dm6/t4. I'm not sure if I'm gonna play next time at all. Tournament was very fun for me but trying to get prepared - not so much. And trying to learn new maps like these cpm ones would be outright frustrating because nobody will be willing to play them with me.

I hear quite often from unfreeze players who would like to get into duels. I think the environment here is not encouraging for them. Firstly - osp server, but they are used to unfreeze with unlagged. Secondly - they are not allowed into these cups (which I understand, because you decided to referee each match and its a lot of work). You are talking a lot about these "elitist" players but I don't really see them, where are they? Elitist sounds like an insult to me. Dictionary say: "adjective: elitist relating to or supporting the view that a society or system should be led by an elite.". Many people, including me, attribute downfall of quake popularity to such attitude of many old players, gatekeeping the game from new players.

To me a player who is willing to learn, get into new gametypes and plays often is more valuable than some grandpa who only shows up once in a while and wants everything to be how it used to be 20 years ago. Also communities with a lot of new and passionate players are much more lively and fun than old "elitist" communities - this is what draws me to unfreeze actually. You've got a lot of such active players on unfreeze servers, it's a capital. Don't worry too much about "grandpas" like me and even older (and I don't mean literal age here).

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Re: fpsclasico masters summer 21 cup

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well despite all that you did great and even according to yourself you had fun so I don't think that it was all that bad. about the elitist thing, I don't mean it as a insult so I apologize if I haven't worded that right, but, it's a fact that competition leads to different classes separating those that score from those that doesn't. that's the reality about competition and that's what I meant. for the rest I know, that's why despite sharing the same site I always kept all this thing separate from the main UnFreeZe thing and pretty much all the rest and also why I never really pushed a competitive agenda there and I kept it here and I believe that the results are quite obvious. other than that I think that you answered yourself why nobody else joins this and/or this isn't more active and/or why I don't organize for other players, honestly what players??? seriously nobody else showed, semi, lags too hard, I beleive we all agree on that and orgi just showed for the sake of it let's be honest. I mean if there would be a strong showing I would be happy to do a begginers/entry level tournament but as you just said "playing against much weaker/stronger opponents gets boring quickly", that's the reality nobody is really insterested in join this to lose say 30:-4 at best game after game but at the end of the day unfortunately that's what competition is really all about. look thing is that I built the UnFreeZe thing precisely with balance in mind (yeah exactly that that there's not so much different among the classes and pretty much to some extend anybody can fight anybody and/or at least add something to the game therefor including everyone) and hence the results however it just happens that the goal design with this is exactly the opposite in fact (to really set apart the difference in skill/equipment/experience among the opponents as much as possible at any single instance as is exactly expected in a competitive setting) so it's what it's. this and UnFreeZe are two very different things (matter of fact I believe that I'd even say that I started with the UnFreeZe thing for those very same reasons) but hey they (both) still serve different, complementing and important purposes. not having this would inmeditely render any random body that ever showed to unquestionabe put this down as some ultimate random piece of noob garbage never having any kind of respect for it, however, when that happens I spawn a tournament here under the most unquestionable elitist approved settings and I guess that you know what follows next, right? they answer by logging out from the site :) just to put a example, to be honest, I'd even also say that this wouldn't be the site/community it's today if it wouldn't be also in part because of this, keep in mind that even if people doesn't participate this also has a following and it motivates people to keep playing the game.

anyways, sorry for the lecture I didn't intend to write that much hehe so we'll see where it leads for future editions (who shows, what settings, what server etc etc). thanks for the input.

PS: and yes I know if you weren't adept from a cpma background those maps are really some hardcore crazy pain, I mean, difficulty level A++ at least. however I believe that it can get really interesting if we get one such player at some edition.