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Re: Quake 3 Configuration Guide (discussion here)

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Re: Quake 3 Configuration Guide (discussion here)

Post by fernandinho1337 »

Hello,

nice work, took probably a lot of time.

I just want to remark:
1. It would be interesting to have suggestions what settings to use (for newbies and newb.zis ;-)) or what advantages and disadvantages go along with those settings (i know: loooooots of extra work)
2. you make remarks about settings that a) dont exist in q3 or in baseq3 e.g.
cl_mouseacceloffset (only QL),
laghax and xerpclients only exist in CPMA
a couple ch_* commands you mention only exist in CPMA or OSP
3. most of the IN-commands you are mentioning are not really worth the trouble, i would not put emphasize on those ones because there are just confusing. in addition certain in_mouse values dont make sense at all. i would not mention them because they cannot be put to use at all.
4. r_smp set to 1 is slower on my quad core than setting it to 0 plus it gives me graphical errors. it is a command that was around for a long time in the q3 code and i think it is not appropriate to use it nowadays

Hint: I can go to my console and type "seta cg_funnycommand 1". if i then look for this command: q3 will tell me it exists even it does not have any function. so i guess you were using certain configs from different games (QL) and mods (osp, CPMA) and q3 still makes you think they actually exist, but they dont :-) thats what has happened to you with laghax and xerpclients...u tell yourself they change something but they really dont on unfreeze server ;-)
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Why is Quake 3 capped at 1.000 frames per seconds?

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Re: Re: Quake 3 Configuration Guide

Post by tar »

Ahoi,

yep, that was a lot of work.

The purpose of the guide

This guide is not restricted to the standard Quake 3 engine as I wanted to include the ioQ3 engine options. It is also not restricted to vanilla Q3 (baseq3) and also not restricted for a particular mod like UnFreeZe only. So, it should be understood as a collection of the most important settings of standard Q3, ioQ3 and the popular Q3 mods (CPMA, OSP and as we are within the UnFreeZe forum for UnFreeZe, of course), which is already mentioned in the introduction:
I have also included important mod variables/commands (ioQ3, OSP, CMPA, UnFreeZe), which is shown in the description for each variable/command.
This guide should make clear which variable/command should be used for each engine/mod. Perhaps I could adjust every separate engine/mod separately in the explanation part. But before that, we have to sort things out, I guess :crazy:

:!: Therefore, please support me and inform me
- if there are variables/commands that are not available within the Q3 or ioQ3 engine (for example only available in QuakeLive engine) -> they should be removed completely, of course
- if there are variables/commands that are only available on a particular engine or mod and not labelled accordingly -> they should be corrected

After this reorganization I am able to adjust the explanation part and therefore will sort/split up the configuration code lines for each engine/mod for a better understanding. As it would be easier to understand, I am aiming at doing one separate post for each one of them under the main guide (so it could be a separate config file for each engine and mod) and yep, this also would take a lot of work.

Beginners guide and tweaking

This should also be targeted and a much more detailed explanation could be needed, I suppose. But for the start, I only wanted the readers to understand the basics and the possibility of variable settings, commands and scripting to adjust their game. And therfore a lot of explanation is already included withing the code as well as in the description part to understand everything.

Furthermore, the settings found in the guide are the settings I actually use but I am not a Q3 guru and still need to find things out for myself as I think the config is far from perfection from a pro gamer perspective and am still experiencing some strange in-game behaviour here and there (which could be causes by my hardware).

:!: Here, I also appreciate any support as this guide is for the whole community and should be maintained over the next couple of months.

in_-variables

Thanks for the information regarding the in_-variables but I will not exclude variables that could be of any use to a players aiming adjustment. What does not fit for you could help someone else getting a better accuracy. If there are variables that does not affect anything, they should be removed, of course.

r_smp

Thanks. I stumbled over r_smp yesterday and changed it to "1" and it worked fine for me but I did not test it long enough to see any difference between "0" and "1". Of course, it could depend on the actual processor type and speeds. Could you tell me, which errors occured exactly (perhaps screenshot of the graphical errors)?
Last edited by tar on Fri Mar 30, 2018 13:38, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Re: Quake 3 Configuration Guide

Post by tar »

By the way, you just told me that you are not using the UnFreeZe mod (the pk3-files) and instead using OSP for playing on the UnFreeZe server on purpose. I think, I had experienced the same strange Quake 3 engine behaviour months back when my Q3-installation was not clean but I wonder how this works. Do you need to move the OSP pk3-files into the baseq3-folder (or even the unfreeze-folder) or is the engine just picking any available pk3-file from any subfolder and not taking into account which mod actually is used by the server or by the fs_game command?
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Re: Re: Quake 3 Configuration Guide

Post by fernandinho1337 »

tar wrote:
Fri Mar 30, 2018 13:27
By the way, you just told me that you are not using the UnFreeZe mod (the pk3-files) and instead using OSP for playing on the UnFreeZe server on purpose. I think, I had experienced the same strange Quake 3 engine behaviour months back when my Q3-installation was not clean but I wonder how this works. Do you need to move the OSP pk3-files into the baseq3-folder (or even the unfreeze-folder) or is the engine just picking any available pk3-file from any subfolder and not taking into account which mod actually is used by the server or by the fs_game command?
hi,

i only had baseq3 and osp installed and for some reason (maybe my execution variables like +set fs_game osp) he started OSP right away. i have been using unfreeze client mod now for awhile. i dont use osp anymore. i think it just feels much better.

r_smp 1 error is attached in screenshot (i have a INTEL i5 7400).

maybe u could gear ur guide towards unfreeze mod. most people here use it and it is a nice starting point.
*edit* mixing all these mods is quite confusing. i know which command belongs to which game but newbies will have problems ^^

*edit2* since i have been using windows 8/10 : when using r_swapinterval 1 and r_displayrefresh it does not work anymore. therefore I use custom resolution utility tool to force 120hz in 1024x768 and then i do com_maxfps 125 therefore everything is synchronized...i also synchronize my netsettings cl_maxpackets 125 with that setting (usb usually also has 120/125 hz or mice have a multiple of 125 so its synchronized too). it makes a great deal of a difference to my playing. if i had a 60hz monitor my mouse would feel differently and i would have much less confidence. maybe talking about how certain settings interact would be interesting. it would also be interesting when starting which are the most needed settings. maybe starting off adminles hardcore config. i think a lot of ppl need a "step by step". i always found it interesting to search through guides and read everything. i guess a lot of people here would suffer due to complexity ^^

best regards
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Why is Quake 3 capped at 1.000 frames per seconds?

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Re: Re: Quake 3 Configuration Guide

Post by tar »

mixing all these mods is quite confusing. i know which command belongs to which game but newbies will have problems ^^
Therefore I labelled them (in the //-description) and now we are targetting to figure out which is actually valid for each engine/mod in order to split up the config accordingly.
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Re: Re: Quake 3 Configuration Guide

Post by fernandinho1337 »

tar wrote:
Fri Mar 30, 2018 13:50
mixing all these mods is quite confusing. i know which command belongs to which game but newbies will have problems ^^
Therefore I labelled them (in the //-description) and now we are targetting to figure out which is actually valid for each engine/mod in order to split up the config accordingly.
i know i know but still you have a lot of reading to do and some people here have difficulties with the english language. you also explain commands that are not needed like lastvalidrenderer - no need to crowd the config with commands. just a suggestion. clean the guide up so only neccessary stuff is on there and the focus is right, therefore much more people will be able to make quick use of it ^^
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Re: Re: Quake 3 Configuration Guide

Post by tar »

i know i know but still you have a lot of reading to do and some people here have difficulties with the english language.
The guide is there to understand things and not to have it "ready to go" for everybody but I concur, that a standard and advanced setting config guide could be established simultaneously or afterwards.
you also explain commands that are not needed like lastvalidrenderer - no need to crowd the config with commands. just a suggestion. clean the guide up so only neccessary stuff is on there and the focus is right, therefore much more people will be able to make quick use of it ^^
Yea, i will remove r_lastvalidrenderer and if you find other settings that do not affect anything or are set by the engine only, let me know :thumbup:
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Re: Re: Quake 3 Configuration Guide (discussion here)

Post by adminless »

hard, hard work indeed. overall I also believe that is good idea to include more things than just what's strictly provided here (i.e. ioQ3 1.33 and UnFreeZe) as lot of people don't feel like using my files and many other people like to experiment and so, overall I believe that those kind of things are part of the fun and besides all that at the end of the day this is a public forum on the internet so that guide can be reached by more people than only "us" so seems like a cool thing, only suggestion is as fer is pointing out, it would be good to differentiate the different commands from different mods/engines in some manner, be it a comment or color codes or something like that.

as for r_smp that's some old school multiprocessing rendering code in the original Quake 3 unfortunately probably largely broken in ioQuake3 so yeah you're right there fer in that in can be broken in your particular setup however the recommendation (or at least mention about it) is still relevant specially in not so powerful boxes (i.e. the usual low/mid end laptop with embedded graphics) where it won't make any dramatic improvement (perhaps just a 2% more of fps) but it will typically result in more stable fps (less fps drops), of course for more power hardware the effect would be pretty much null.

and as for osp here is simple fer had it installed in the baseq3 folder that's why it was picking up, pk3's load in alphabetically order and from baseq3 to the destination fs_game value any new file overridden the previous ones (ex. the unfreeze0-client.pk3 client game overrides the client game in the original q3 paks remove them and then they will pick up). as a note it was horrible practice to install osp in the baseq3 for this kind of things as it can basically just break anything, I mean, it's just not guaranteed/tested to work, though folks just do it anyways.

well, that's with me for now, as I read it more closely (it will take me time) or I see something/have some ideas or anything I'll just drop you a message here by now I believe that you could also point a link to this separate thread at the start of your post (I mean or somewhere) so people can know by now that they can come here for further discussion/help (if you didn't yet, like I said I didn't stop by much there for now) as well as probably make a link about it on your signature.

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Re: Re: Quake 3 Configuration Guide (discussion here)

Post by tar »

since i have been using windows 8/10 : when using r_swapinterval 1 and r_displayrefresh it does not work anymore. therefore I use custom resolution utility tool to force 120hz in 1024x768 and then i do com_maxfps 125 therefore everything is synchronized...i also synchronize my netsettings cl_maxpackets 125 with that setting (usb usually also has 120/125 hz or mice have a multiple of 125 so its synchronized too). it makes a great deal of a difference to my playing. if i had a 60hz monitor my mouse would feel differently and i would have much less confidence. maybe talking about how certain settings interact would be interesting. it would also be interesting when starting which are the most needed settings. maybe starting off adminles hardcore config. i think a lot of ppl need a "step by step". i always found it interesting to search through guides and read everything. i guess a lot of people here would suffer due to complexity ^^
True dat. It is difficult to explain everything and keep the whole guide readable and understandable for everybody.

The good thing is, if someone does not understand something (because of a bad description or bad language skills) he can ask here :thumbup:

Regarding the engine behaviour: yep, it is a rather complex interaction between the client and the server regarding the frames per seconds that are not only connected to the bandwith and latency but also to the output (what you see on screen) and your input (influences movement and sensitivity). Therefore it essentialy depends on the hardware you are using (most important things are the monitor (-> refresh rate), graphics card (-> max fps, synchronisation) and network card (-> bandwith, latency) and their particular driver settings within the operational system and within the Q3 config) and the connection you have (your provider, the servers provider and network settings in the Q3 config).
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Re: Re: Quake 3 Configuration Guide (discussion here)

Post by adminless »

just for the record also as another note here, fer you're indeed a very observant guy hehe about the settings r_displayrefresh and r_swapinterval the thing is that they are totally broken on the original Quake 3 code, I mean, yes sure they are there as "settings" but they do absolutely nothing, I mean, I'm telling you this from reading the code not from experience (though yes you also got it right from experience) and is not a thing with newer Windows versions is from the very own q3 code, so unless some magic external gl driver did something about those settings or something like that they are in practice not used anywhere on the q3 code. the only way to tweak those things are on your graphic drivers settings.

also for the record the "swapinterval" functionality aka vsync can be accessed with the vblank_mode mode attribute prior invoking the binary on linux (ex. vblank_mode=0 ~/.q3a/ioquake3.i386).

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Re: Re: Quake 3 Configuration Guide (discussion here)

Post by tar »

just for the record also as another note here, fer you're indeed a very observant guy hehe
Gosh, it took me until this post to understand what the word "fer" means :lol:

r_smp:
-> I will update the setting and description.

r_swapinterval: & r_displayrefresh:
Are you 100% sure that this does not affect anything? Please check their interaction with cl_maxpackets according to this guide ( I also found similar descriptions for other mods). Or do you mean they only come into effect if vsync is also enabled within the windows driver settings - which i thought, would be obvious, but sure: I should add this step into the description.

pk3-handling:
These are important informations and also needed to be included... I think I will add a mod part (which should be added anyways...) including this.

Thanks "admin".
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Re: Re: Quake 3 Configuration Guide (discussion here)

Post by tar »

@Admin:
Btw. I would highly appreciate it if you adjust the UnFreeZe model and color handling according to CPMA/OSP and use the same settings for that instead of using the rather confusing method implemented now of which I am not sure if I had described it correctly (see part 5, section 3).
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Re: Re: Quake 3 Configuration Guide (discussion here)

Post by adminless »

yes, yes 100% sure by reading the code they do nothing as a general statement (sure, as always may be some mod made use of it, who knows, but I remark as a general statement they do nothing at all in the whole original Quake 3 code), they are just dummie settings (probably unfinished or left there from testing versions or whatever). I know, in fact, it was precisely that post which brought my attention towards that topic and as you can see fer (yes, fernandinho/dirk I call him by various names depending on the day hehe sorry) comes to confirm this findings from experience, bottom line, don't always believe everything that people say, specially that is posted on the internet, when it comes to technology there's plenty of "myths" (misconceptions).

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Re: Re: Quake 3 Configuration Guide (discussion here)

Post by fernandinho1337 »

tar wrote:
Fri Mar 30, 2018 14:59
r_swapinterval: & r_displayrefresh:
Are you 100% sure that this does not affect anything? Please check their interaction with cl_maxpackets according to this guide ( I also found similar descriptions for other mods). Or do you mean they only come into effect if vsync is also enabled within the windows driver settings - which i thought, would be obvious, but sure: I should add this step into the description.
I can assure you it does not work.
I have an old CRT and I heavily rely on monitor settings. It makes the game more fluent and also improves the feeling of the mouse.

you can test displayrefresh by doing r_swapinterval 1 and cg_drawfps. you will see that no matter what value u set r_displayrefresh it will not change (try 60/85/100/120).

best regards
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Re: Re: Quake 3 Configuration Guide (discussion here)

Post by adminless »

yes as i finish with the server code (I got stuck so far, as we all know past monday 26 after swapping the server it froze again 6 times for a total of 30 seconds at arround noon, 0:00, which is totally unacceptable and no matter what it should not happen again, ever, under no circumstance, so this week I've been digging up the scalation yet another time let's see if this time I can come up with something more stable) and I do some 2018 revision of the stats/rank next will come the revision/improvement of the client, it's likely I rewrite or at least tune it in concordance as I have been tuning the server lately, so we'll see, thanks for the suggestion. another idea I've just got from finally observing all this together as a whole is that is possible that I rename the added UnFreeZe related client variables as to be prefixed by uf_ (ex. uf_forceskin) as to contribute to a better mod integration in the whole q3 modding community and to make it easier (i.e. type uf_ and tab would give the added functionalities for example). thanks for the suggestions and all the work here.