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Frozen players harder to move

UnFreeZe/FreeFUn/glacius Game Servers forum.
Zealot
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Frozen players harder to move

Post by Zealot »

A few of us have noticed frozen players are harder to move around with shotgun and rl. What changed? Now it's harder to breakup tight groupings of frozen enemies and also harder to thaw multiple friendlies at once.

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adminless
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Re: Frozen players harder to move

Post by adminless »

I don't know but at least I know that I changed nothing (this weekend I've been working mostly on the adminless.ovh machine, i.e. here, balancing, updating and deploying some services, in few words, stuff that is not even remotely related with UnFreeZe) so I guess that it will be just some random variable/stack corruption or some stuff like that therefor I don't expect that to last much longer, the daily automated maintenance should have took care of that I believe. anyways let me know if the problem persists.

kos
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Re: Frozen players harder to move

Post by kos »

Also notice frozen players are a bit more sticky and it occurred once for a teammate to get stuck between two frozen enemies and it took a bit of work to get him out.

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Re: Frozen players harder to move

Post by Zealot »

It seems to have fixed itself!

alyeti
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Re: Frozen players harder to move

Post by alyeti »

Oddly this still occurs time to time , where you can't move anyone frozen but then it resets , as for getting stuck you need to walk round walls not through them lol

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Re: Frozen players harder to move

Post by adminless »

I know, I remember last time I worked on some server code I let it to run for more than 48 hours straight with 64 bots looking for this issue and this didn't even happen once. in addition in the several hundred of hours I played/tested this never happened to me either so unfortunately under those circumstances there's no much I can do about it. anyways, that being said, I know this still happens from "time to time" and I understand that every time this takes place is heartbreaking but well it's really something like once a month or so and even so probably it doesn't happen for more than a couple of shots. not trying to underestimate this with that but overall looks like a minor issue probably not worth ("cost"/risk wise) digging any further.

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Re: Frozen players harder to move

Post by fau »

It's back again. I can't complain about it because I feel like usually ppl take their time to drag me across the map, into the void :D

I see your server has a very high uptime. If I was to take a guess, I'd say it's one of "high server time" bugs - perhaps the one in G_BounceItem(). There are few of these bugs in q3.

It can be fixed in the mod code, server can be modified to reset server time on map change (newer ioq3 does this), or you can just restart server more often (daily?). Either by restarting process or with "killserver; map <map>" command.

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Re: Frozen players harder to move

Post by adminless »

hello

you probably can't see it but Russians, as well as overseas players, can tell you that the game servers in fact do restart every day at some time around 6:00 which is when the players stats/rank synchronize. if you got that idea because of the guy screaming all the time that the servers need to get restarted, well, as you can see that guy just don't know what the fuck he is talking about. as general advice people shouldn't take for granted anything people say on the internet/a game server.

for the rest, no, it's also unrelated to that function, the code involved on that is just regular knock back damage calculations applied to the frozen body entity. the most likely is that just for some (very very unusual) reason at some point the frozen entity information gets corrupted which leads to a knock back miss calculation (or a total null knock back, since it's not even clearly reported).

anyways just like I said, last time I worked on some server code I made sure to let that to run for 48 hours straight with 64 bots looking for knock back issues and found none. in addition, on the hundred of hours I tested the servers (both online as well as offline) I never encountered this myself and so far people didn't even provide a demo or just a clear/precise report (are the bodies harder to move or they just don't move at all? how long the problem persists? does it affect all weapons or just one? does it affect all the players or just one? does it affect all the frozen bodies or just one? were everybody, or at least the affected parts, using the provided client game mod or anything else? and a very very long list of other things). as you may guess under those circumstances there's no way to patch (or address) that.

that being said I'm not making any excuses whatsoever, I'm the one and only responsible for that and it's absolutely unacceptable that such a atrocious and disgusting bug ever took place no matter what, no matter when, no matter how, no matter anything, that should never ever even happened just once, period, no ifs, no buts, no anything so I express my utmost sincere apologies to anyone who ever had to suffer such a disgrace.

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Re: Frozen players harder to move

Post by fau »

I got that idea because I had a quick look at server time in cg_drawsnapshot and thought it was high. But you're right, it's just 13 hours now, I didn't count it just assumed it was high enough. My mistake. I was just taking a wild guess without access to your code and convinced myself it was right. Just trying to help.

For me it's not a big deal, don't be so hard on yourself. I'm fine if it stays this way.

Next time I see it I'll check how it works exactly and make a proper report

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Re: Frozen players harder to move

Post by adminless »

yeah, don't worry, it's fine I know you know about this, I was referring to the randoms that always write the same restart server non sense and the problem with that, is that most of the rest end up taking that for granted and consequently getting a very strong negative and unacceptable impression about the server management.

and yeah, I know, I'm not taking anything away from what I wrote nor I'm trying to minimize the importance of this bug neither elude my own and sole responsibility with this but quite frankly, so far, this just looks to me like randomly once each couple of weeks or so some frozen body entity info gets corrupt (or something like that) which leads to it getting stuck for a couple of shots or may be a game which, honestly, it doesn't look like something that it's gonna completely compromise the entire game and/or that someone else stats/rank are gonna be completely obliterated into irrelevant values because of that.

so yeah, in all honesty, like I said, I had a read of the related code (at its time) and found no obvious bug and, in addition, I can't even reproduce it nor there's even really a clear/precise report. I know that this is a totally unacceptable answer as I should put infinite resources into this, no excuses, but the reality is that under those circumstances it would be really irresponsible of me to keep throwing time into this when there's other tasks at hand here that do really have a much higher impact on the project than that.

so yes, if you ever come across this issue again probably a good starting point would be to just record a demo and post it here and in addition check stuff like I told you, check different weapons, different angles, different places, different players, different bodies, how long the issue lasted etc etc

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Re: Frozen players harder to move

Post by fau »

I'll answer here to keep it in the same topic: I've been looking for this bug but couldn't reproduce it. Each time I thought someone was stuck it just took to adjust the angle a little to push him (so as to not push him into the wall). Probably it was like this the whole time and we just assumed they were stuck without checking for sure with different angle.

There is this extrapolation error sometimes when I fire at a frozen player and it looks like he is going to fly off, warping away, but in the end he doesn't move at all. I can't find it on demos (because demo playback doesn't use entity extrapolation I guess?).
Once I learned they are not really stuck it doesn't bother me anymore - I just know that I need to adjust angle.

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Re: Frozen players harder to move

Post by adminless »

I know sorry I saw your vids and they reminded me of this issue I was tracking so I just asked you there, but yeah it was kind of offtopic. ok, that's good then, thanks for report. yes, that's exactly what I was talking about, like I said, I can't rule out a bug for a fact but overall my impression about this is exactly that, some random dude just spected some veteran crouching towards a frozen body to shotgun it at point blank with a 37.5 degree angle right bellow the waist for that sweet parabolic trajectory flight and then next time he of course made sure to run straight to a frozen body to shotgun it from a mile in the face against a corner/wall and once it didn't move like that started taunting and screaming all over the place bug and restart the server with no end. no big deal, just as I explained other times, the only problem with that is that the rest of the randoms that can't know better just take that word for granted and in the long run such ideas end up rooting in the community for no good reason at all.

I mean, not saying saying that is absolutely impossible that such a issue may ever took place, but not at least for a really proven/verified reason yet. as I said, in several hundred of hours of testing this I haven't even encountered that myself and the "reports" aren't even really consistent so far. anyways as I commented, following your report, even though it shouldn't even be necessary but just in case, this time I added a few extra code checks and safeguards to ensure that the entity information related to the knockback calculation is valid which, to the best of my knowledge, is the only thing that could cause something as described. I hope that that, in addition to these explanations, should finally settle this issue.

for the rest, yes I know, the frozen body physics aren't "perfect" but here is the thing, they aren't supposed to be, I mean, that's how they really are, they always have been like that. yes, sometimes the frozen bodies get stuck and they tend to stick into walls so it takes some skill to move them (proper angles/impact place/weapon/situation selection) but like I said, that's not really a "bug", that's just how they work. I know of some other mods that have "patched"/"improved" frozen body physics (which is what in part may be adding to the confusion) and they pretty much are garbage. I mean, you randomly shot a corpse and it ends up flying and bouncing all over the place like a fucking bowling/pinball game, I don't really think anyone of us really want that. I think that for this game suits better to have kind of (still movable but mostly) "static" frozen bodies than turn this into a messy frozen bodies soup.

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Re: Frozen players harder to move

Post by alyeti »

I haven't seen this issue for a while , if you mean being able to move the bodies , I regularly dump them in the pool :) so seems to be working better these days